Street Fighter IV/Zangief
- 1 Introduction
- 2 Frame Data
- 3 Move Analysis
- 4 The Basics
- 5 Combos
- 6 Strategy
- 7 Abel
- 8 Akuma (gouki)
- 9 Balrog(Boxer)
- 10 Blanka
- 11 C. Viper
- 12 Cammy
- 13 Chun Li
- 14 Dan
- 15 Dhalsim
- 16 E. Honda
- 17 El Fuerte
- 18 Fei Long
- 19 Gen
- 20 Gouken
- 21 Guile
- 22 Ken
- 23 M. Bison (Dictator)
- 24 Rose
- 25 Rufus
- 26 Ryu
- 27 Sagat
- 28 Sakura
- 29 Seth
- 30 Vega (Claw)
- 31 Zangief
- 32 Matchup Videos
|Frames||Frames||Frames of||Frames of||Super Meter||Block||Cancel||Ability|
|Move Name||Damage||Stun||Startup||Active||Recovery||Total||On Block||On Hit||Block Stun||Hit Stun||Gain||HL||Chain||Special||Super||Notes|
|crouch LK||40||50||3||3||7||12||+1||+4||10||13||20||L||X||O||O||Low attack|
|crouch MK||90||100||9||4||15||27||-5||-2||13||16||40||L||X||X||X||Low attack|
|crouch HK||120||200||9||5||18||31||-5||D||17||-||60||L||X||X||X||Low attack, cannot fast recover|
|Jump up LP||60||50||5||5||-||-||-||8||11||20||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump up MP||90||100||7||4||-||-||-||11||15||40||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump up HP||140||200||10||6||-||-||-||15||18||60||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump up LK||50||50||7||4||-||-||-||8||11||20||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump up MK||90||100||9||5||-||-||-||11||15||40||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump up HK||120||200||9||6||-||-||-||15||18||60||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump forward LP||60||50||6||5||-||-||-||8||11||20||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump forward MP||90||100||7||3||-||-||-||11||15||40||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump forward HP||120||200||11||6||-||-||-||15||18||60||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump forward LK||50||50||7||4||-||-||-||8||11||20||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump forward MK||90||100||9||10||-||-||-||11||15||40||H||-||-||-||-|
|Jump forward HK||120||200||9||6||-||-||-||15||18||60||H||-||-||-||-|
|DF+HK||120||200||14||7||22||42||-11||D||17||-||60||L||X||X||X||Low attack, cannot fast recover|
|Focus Attack LVL 1||90||100||23||5||32||59||-21||-21||15||15||20||HL||-||-||-||-|
|Focus attack LVL 2||120||150||18+15||5||32||69||-15||D||21||-||40||HL||-||-||-||-|
|Focus attack LVL 3||170||200||65||5||32||101||D||D||-||-||60||-||-||-||-||-|
|Forward Throw||160||180||3||2||20||24||-||D||-||-||40||0.9||-||-||-||Throw range 0.9|
|Back throw||160||180||3||2||20||24||-||D||-||-||40||0.9||-||-||-||Throw range 0.9|
|Spinning Piledriver LP||200||100||2||2||52||55||-||D||-||-||40/100||1.65||X||X||X||Throw range 1.65|
|Spinning Piledriver MP||220||150||2||2||50||53||-||D||-||-||40/100||1.45||X||X||X||Throw range 1.45|
|Spinning Piledriver HP||240||200||2||2||48||51||-||D||-||-||40/100||1.35||X||X||X||Throw range 1.35|
|Spinning Piledriver EX||220||150||4||2||47||52||-||D||-||-||0/0||1.35||X||X||X||1~5 (translate), Throw range 1.35|
|Banishing Flat LP||120||100||11||2||21||33||-7||-5||15||17||30/30||HL||X||X||O||6~20 (translate)|
|Banishing Flat MP||130||150||13||2||22||36||-8||-6||15||17||30/30||HL||X||X||O||8~22 (translate)|
|Banishing Flat HP||140||200||16||2||23||40||-9||-7||15||17||30/30||HL||X||X||O||9~25 (translate)|
|Banishing Flat EX||80*80||50*50||13||1*1||27||41||-9||D||18||18||0/0||HL||X||X||O||1~13f invincible, 14~22 (translate), Pursuit property|
|Lariet PPP||120*140||150*200||4||2(4)7(2)7(3)9(2)8(4)3||14||68||-44||D||20||-||30/40||HL||X||X||O||1~3 (translate), 1~54 (translate), 6~54 (translate)|
|Laret KKK||110*130||100*150||4||2(4)5(3)8(4)3||14||46||-23||D||20||-||30/30||HL||X||X||O||1~32 (translate), 1~32 (translate)|
|Double German Suplex||230||200||2||2||45||48||-||D||-||-||30/140||1.0||-||-||-||Throw range 1.0|
|Double German Suplex EX||250||200||2||2||45||48||-||D||-||-||0/0||1.0||-||-||-||(translate), Throw range 1.0|
|Running Bear Grab||200||150||1||2||45||47||-||D||-||-||30/80||0.9||-||-||-||Throw range: light 2.9, medium 3.2, hard 1.2|
|Running Bear Grab EX||220||200||1||2||45||47||-||D||-||-||0/0||0.9||-||-||-||(translate), Throw range 5.0|
|Super Combo||500||0||1+0||2||46||49||-||D||-||-||0/0||1.2||-||-||-||1(translate), Throw range 1.2|
|Ultra Combo||600||0||1+0||2||46||49||-||D||-||-||0/0||1.4||-||-||-||1(translate), Throw range 1.4|
|Frames||Frames||Frames of||Frames of||Super Meter||Block||Cancel||Ability|
|Move Name||Damage||Stun||Startup||Active||Recovery||Total||On Block||On Hit||Block Stun||Hit Stun||Gain||HL||Chain||Special||Super||Notes|
The 1 frame discrepancy you see between Startup+Active+Recovery and Total is because when it says a move has 4 frames startup, it really has 3 frames startup and hits on frame 4. It was written this way so you don't have to do any math to figure out what frame a move first hits on.
Standing Normal Attacks (Close)
It should be noted that all of Zangiefs close normals are terrible on block. Stick to his crouching moveset when up close.
S.LP (Stand Jab)
S.MP (Stand Strong)
S.HP (Stand Fierce)
S.LK (Stand Short)
S.MK (Stand Forward)
S.HK (Stand Roundhouse)
Standing Normal Attacks (Far)
S.LP (Stand Jab)
Awesome in a nutshell. Jab is +8 on block, does 40 damage, chains into itself, and has a great hitbox. It's easy to fish for counter hits and react with S.MP when you hit.
S.MP (Stand Strong)
One of the best normals in the entire game. At a 4 frame startup with 90 damage and a +2 on block, nothing is bad about this move. It reaches crazy far and can even combo into itself in the right distances. Use w/ Stand Jab in working your way in. It's also great for stuffing moves in the Sagat matchup.
S.HP (Stand Fierce)
Glacially Slow startup and a negative -3 on block makes this move a no go. It looks a lot less safe than it really is though. -3 is pretty hard to punish by most of the cast.
S.LK (Stand Short)
Pretty much the exact same Frame Data as stand strong, with a little further hitbox and it hits lower. This is also Gief's best canceled move. From far away you fish for a hit buffered into green hand. It also works great at the end of any of his combos.
S.MK (Stand Forward)
At first I thought this move was pretty good, since it reaches far and seems to have good priority. However, this move is crazy unsafe at -10. That's pretty much a free Ultra from Chun, Abel, or Blanka. Do not use.
S.HK (Stand Roundhouse)
The boot of Justice. A completely new move for Gief, and a great one at that. It's startup is really slow, but the most important thing is that it moves Gief forward while attacking upwards. This is great for catching people jumping backwards. It's not really an anti air per se, but more like an anti jump. I find it incredibly useful moving past akuma airballs and hitting him on his descent. Oh, and 140 damage, this move HURTS. It's also only -2 on block, so nothing can really punish you at that distance. A common tactic is to whiff S.HK to move you forward, and SPD/Super/Ultra.
Crouching Normal Attacks
C.LP (Crouch Jab)
C.MP (Crouch Strong)
C.HP (Crouch Fierce)
C.LK (Crouch Short)
C.MK (Crouch Forward)
C.HK (Crouch Roundhouse)
Command Normal Attacks
almost useless just happen if you try to tech
Focus / Saving Attack
Bread & Butter Combo: (JumpIn) c.LP*;c.LP*;cLK** xx EX-Greenhand
'*Possibility to Tickthrow / Standing HK (antijump) / Block & Punish reversals
'** without meter use Standing MP link on hit here
the c.LP-cLK must be a LINK to Cancel EX-Greenhand after
If you got a 3 Hit Combo (4 hit with jumpin) and the Ex-Greenhand wont come out you performed the c.LK to early
If you got a 2 Hit Combo (4 hit with jumpin) and then a 3 Hit Combo you performed the c.LK to late
all a matter of timing!
exakt way to execute the combo is db (hold) lp;lp; df;d;df+lk; lp+mp;
Crouching lp, crouching lp, crouching lp, standing mp** Damage: 30+30+(30*.8)+(90*.7) = 147
Crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk, standing mp** Damage: 40+40+(40*.8)+(90*.7) = 175
Far standing short xx ex green hand(aka toe xx hand) Damage: 30+160 = 190
Antiair trade/fadc punch lariat, ex green hand (1 hit) Damage: 120+80 = 200
LP spinning piledriver(aka spd) Damage: 200
Atomic suplex(aka close 360+k) Damage: 200
Atomic suplex(aka far 360+k) Damage: 200
Late kick lariat, ex hand (1 hit) Damage: 130+80 = 210
Late punch lariat, ex hand (1 hit) Damage: 140+80 = 220
MP spd) Damage: 220
EX spd Damage: 220
EX close 360+k Damage: 220
Crouching lp, crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk xx ex hand*, ** Damage: 30+40+(40*.8)+(40*.7)+(160*.6) = 226
Running bear grab(aka far 360+k) Damage: 230
Crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk xx ex hand*, ** Damage: 40+40+(40*.8)+(40*.7)+(160*.6) = 236
HP spd Damage: 240
Crouching lp, close standing mp/mk xx ex hand Damage: 30+90+(.8*160) = 248
Crouching lp, crouching lp, far standing mp, far standing lk xx ex hand** Damage: 30+30+(.8*90)+(.7*30)+(.6*160) = 249
Close standing mp/mk xx ex hand Damage: 90+160 = 250
EX far 360+k Damage: 250
Crouching lk, crouching lk, far standing mp, far standing lk xx ex hand** Damage: 40+40+(.8*90)+(.7*40)+(30*.7)+(.6*160) = 297
HP splash, crouching lk xx kick lariat Damage: 110+40+(110*.8) = 238
HP splash, crouching lp, crouching lp, crouching lp, standing mp** Damage: 110+30+(30*.8)+(30*.7)+(90*.6) = 239
HP splash, crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk xx ex hand*, ** Damage: 110+40+(40*.8)+(40*.7)+(40*.6)+(160*.5) = 306
HP splash, crouching lp, crouching lp, far standing mp, standing lk xx ex hand Damage: 110+30+(30*.8)+(90*.7)+(30*.6)+(160*.5) = 325
Fierce splash, crouching lk, far standing mp, crouching lk xx ex hand Damage: 110+40+(90*.8)+(40*.7)+(160*.6) = 346
Jumping hp/hk, crouching hk Damage: 120+120 = 240
Jumping mk, crouching lk xx ex hand Damage: 90+40+(160*.8) = 258
Jumping hp/hk, far standing hp/hk Damage: 120+140 = 260
Jumping hp/hk, crouching lk xx ex hand Damage: 120+40+(160*.8) = 288
Jumping hp/hk, crouching lk, crouching lk xx ex hand*, ** Damage: 120+40+(40*.8)+(160*.7) = 296
[i]Jumping hp/hk, crouching lp, crouching lp, far standing mp, far standing lk xx ex hand[/I Damage: 120+30+(30*.8)+(90*.7)+(30*.6)+(160*.5) = 335
Jumping hp/hk, far standing mp, crouching lk xx ex hand Damage: 120+90+(40*.8)+(160*.7) = 354
Focus Attack Combos
Level 3 FA, crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk, crouching lk xx ex green hand*, ** Damage: 170+(.8*30)+(.7*30)+(.6*30)+(.5*40)+(.4*160) = 317
Level 3 FA, close 360+k Damage: 170+(.8*200) = 330
Level 3 FA, ex close 360+k Damage: 170+(.8*220) = 346
Level 3 FA, atomic suplex Damage: 170+(.8*230) = 354
Level 3 FA, hp spd Damage: 170+(.8*240) = 362
Level 3 FA, crouching lk, crouching lk, standing mp, crouching lk xx ex green hand** Damage: 170+(.8*40)+(.7*40)+(.6*90)+(.5*40)+(.4*160) = 368
Ultra and Super Combos
Level 1 ultra Damage: 400
Super Damage: 500
Level 2 ultra Damage: 600
- You can replace the crouching shorts in these combos with crouching jabs, but each crouching jab does 10 fewer damage points than crouching short. You can chain these attacks, you still have to link at least second to last hit of these combos (ie the last normal attack before the ex green hand) because you can't cancel into a chained series of normals into a special move like ex green hand, but you can cancel into a linked move into a special move.
The difference between chaining and linking is that moves that are designed to chain, that is cancel their animation right into each other, will combo into each other if you just mash the button, whereas a linked move is a move that comes after you wait for the previous move's animation and recovery to finish completely. Zangief's jabs and shorts are chainable, which makes doing most of these combos easier if you use crouching jab, but if you do chain them, you can't cancel right from a chained crouching jab into ex green hand, so you have to link the last one before ex green hand. You do this just by waiting for the second-to-last crouching jab to completely finish its animation before you do the last one. If you want to link the whole combo and chain none of it, then wait a longer time between each jab/short to allow each one's animation to finish before going into the next.
Bottom line, if you want to combo the jab/shorts combos into ex green hand, do the combo slowly and make sure that at least the last normal part of the combo is linked instead of chained.
- Against tall characters who can get hit by standing jab while crouching, it's easier to do these combos by replacing the crouching jabs/shorts with standing jab. Standing jab has a sweet +8 frame advantage on hit that makes it really easy to link out of and is still a chainable attack, so it's the easiest of all worlds. This isn't necessary and you do give up some damage if you do it instead of crouching shorts, but if you're having trouble with these combos and you're up against a tall character, try this out.
As for Fall Sky/Whirlwind, that 50/50 is just not going to be profitable in the long run for Abel. B/c you have to factor in damage options here:
WW Throw->Gief Blocks: Abel 200-220 WW Throw->Gief Jumps/Back Dash: Gief 200(SPD)-300 (jump in, MP, EX Hand)
Fall Sky->Gief backdashes/jumps: Abel 160 Fall Sky->Gief blocks: Gief- 240-250 (either HP SPD or MP->ex hand)
Abel is losing these damage exchanges every time. Keep in mind Gief has 100 more health than Abel.
- Also, this certainly changes when Gief's got Ultra/Super, the penalties for guessing wrong on him just got much worse.
-Abel's meaty regular command grab beats all of your options on wakeup, including ex spd, super, and ultra. The only things you have that will escape are backdash and jump. Backdash into spd and up jump+HP headbutt->combo->ex hand can punish a meaty command grab.
-Your meaty spd beats all of Abel's wakeup options except his backdash and jump.
A runaway Akuma is NOT like the other shotos at all. It's a completely different match.
1. Akuma has teleport. = Akuma's teleport is the best in the game b/c the positions are fixed relative to the SCREEN and not the character. He's not like bison or Sim where you'll end up back in the corner or right behind your opponent. Any knockdown= free reversal teleport away for an akuma player.
2. Akuma has air fireball, EX air fb, red ground fireball= The air fb's are hard to get around, and the Red Fireball can't be focused for free ultra meter.
3. Akuma has dive kick- Which cleanly beats lariat at the right height.
okay. some tips.
A. Be patient. This match is going to last a long time. Easily the most boring fight in the game.
B. Don't be afraid to liberally FADC Blue air/ground fireballs. I usually FADC one, lariat/jump the next to get white health back. You may only get 1 or 2 shots up close on him, so attempting an ultra is a lot better than attempting an SPD.
C.Treasure that EX meter. Because really, EX glove is the only realistic shot you have at getting in and doing damage. Get him coming down from air fb, or going through a ground fb.
D. Use stand RH to walk forward while attacking past fierce air fbs. Your goal is to tag him as he's jumping up, or to move UNDER the air fb and tag him on the way down. Trades are your friend. DF+RH works too sometimes.
E. Do not jump or PPP lariat when he has ultra. Trust me. Doing a KKK lariat to bait the ultra may work once or twice if he's looking for it and not paying attention to the sound.
F. If their akuma is good at teleporting and you knock him down, gameplan for the teleport reversal. Do Ex glove on his wakeup (backwards teleport), or jump backwards splash->EX glove (forwards teleport). Depending on where he picked to teleport, he could put himself in a worse situation.
G. and the most important point: IF YOU HAVE A DECENT LIFE LEAD: STOP ATTACKING.
-DON'T MOVE FORWARD
-FOCUS/LARIAT/JUMP UP FIREBALLS
-BE WARY OF ULTRA SETUPS
Once a life lead is reached, there is little akuma can do to seriously hurt gief if gief plays smart. What little he CAN do (dive kick, stand rh pressure, ultra/super), involves taking some risks on his part. Since you have almost 50% more life than he does, him taking risks as opposed to you= good.
Seriously. This match should end in time overs 60-90% of the time. If it doesn't, one of the players really messed up.
The key to the Balrog match is to do PPP lariat AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. Rog's jump HK, sweep, and Buffalo headbutt beat it clean, and it stays out too long.
There are several keys to this match.
1)know when he's charged for buffalo headbutt. --When he's holding db, he's charged. DO NOT JUMP or LARIAT. Either will lose clean and you'll get hit by ultra.
2)know the range of his best anti air, c. HP. Jump at a "magic range" where if you do nothing or do j. D+LK, his anti air will whiff, allowing you to spd. But if you do J.MK or J.FP, you will hit him. Again, only jump if he doesn't have a down charge.
3)Do not try to PPP his jump RH. You will lose and eat his full combo. Instead, block and see what he does. If he continues the ground combo, exploit holes w/ KKK lariat or SPD. If he jumps back immediately while attacking, do EX Glove and grab him when he lands.
4) When you are both standing and jockeying for position (i.e. no headbutt charged), KKK lariat beats everything rog has. Beware the EX Rushes though, sometimes they will beat you, sometimes not. Be Especially wary of EX overhead, as it leads to the most damage. If you time your lariat right, he'll take double damage.
5)Level 1 TAP is safe. Beware of gimmicks like Level 1 TAP, EX Headbutt, Ultra.
6)Jab Straight Rushes are an annoyance. KKK lariat works, but you have to be predictive and that's not a good thing. Try to get him to misrange them so you get free SPDs, and level 1 focus them to make him start using EX meter or using the laggier Dash Thrust which focus breaks.
7)Anytime you hear/see Balrog EX from half or full screen, input the Jab SPD. You should pull him out of the attack every time, since all EX dashes go full screen and don't come out till late.
8)When you land an SPD. Do immediate jab glove over, then do one of four things.
a)SPD. BEATS: Block, Normals, EX Dash Straight LOSES: Headbutt, Jump Back
b)Block- BEATS: Headbutt LOSES:Jump Back, Throw (lol)
c)Low Short to combo- BEATS: Jump, Normal Headbutt EVEN: Block, EX HEADBUTT (you can block) LOSES:EX dash Straight
d)EX Green Hand-BEATS:Normal, Jump Back, normal headbutt LOSES:Block, EX headbutt
Doing an immediate EX Green Hand will put you UNDER Balrog so you can grab him. This really only works once or twice, b/c once the Balrog learns to jump back and DELAY his attack, he can come down with a combo.
I'm not sure if EX glove beats headbutt or not.
9) And most important.... if you have a decent life lead. (i.e. a fierce's worth) STOP MOVING FORWARD. Balrog now needs to take risks in order to win. Start looking for overhead rushes and Jump HK's and countering appropriately.
- Blocked Ultra can be puunished With your own ultra just by execute it while in Blockstun
- Blankas regular ball is focus break
- Rainbow roll has gotta be the biggest focus bait in the game. Focus, dash, punish. Move is only good as EX to get out of the corner and also good when you're about to die, as you can't focus it, and have to figure out which way to block. just assume they'll go for the crossup first, then the normal one. if you correctly block it, free spd.
- If a blanka does a HK "deep" you can lariat it. It's only when he does it high to hit your head that it'll stuff lariat. This applies to nearly every jumping attack in the game that beats lariat. It must be done high. This basically means that they CANNOT continue the pressure on the ground b/c it's not a combo and SPD/Lariat will win. So they have to jump backwards, probably using the same attack and stuffing the whiff SPD/Lariat.
Your options? First, go into training mode and set blanka on record and do various jumping HK's. Then as Gief, try to lariat them:
1) Block. Jump in, jump out attacks aren't going to do damage to you unless you panic and spam on lariat/SPD.
2) focus->backdash the jumpin. Because no sane player is going to jump in to continue the ground game against gief and thus break the focus armor, this is a good option. It also gets them to think about jumping in deeper or continuing a ground chain to break your focus, and those are good things, b/c they can be countered. Also, free Ultra gauge is good.
3) Block the jump in, counter the jump back. This is just theory fighter, but if you block the jump, you should be able to EX glove and get closer to the jump back attempt.
4) Cr.MP A really underrated AA. it can even snag people crossing you up.
- don't do meaties or meaty crossups, up ball beats them for free
- jumping toward/back MK beats horizontal balls for free
- don't throw out many lariats, Blanka can punish them with slide or horizontal ball
- depend more on normals to push Blanka back, if you see that he's not charging you can go for max range jumping MK
- Blanka's st.MP beats your st.MP and LP from a certain range, but your low moves like cr.MK/HK beat it, and obviously ex hand does too
- when footsying with LP and LK, don't forget to always buffer the LP/LK into ex hand
- if you have him cornered, watch out for ex rainbow roll, which he can maneuver to get out of the corner
- Throwing for blanka is a really bad idea, as that will ONLY beat straight block or EX SPD. Any other move by gief (SPD, Cr.LK, EX 360+k, Ultra, Super) beats blanka's 3 frame throw.
- gief is able to punish Blanka's upball midscreen. Blanka has to be point blank (pretty much reversal distance), and Zangief is much better off if he stand blocks. A reversal HP Glove or EX Glove should hit blanka out of the air after you block the ball. You know it works b/c HP glove doesn't normally knock down, but in this case it does. - BTW, to setup this range post SPD, it is better to do the MP glove than the LP one. Your timing has to be tighter though, it's basically a 1 frame leeway.
- Headbutt isn't very practical against horiz ball. Jump back MK beats it clean though, but you have to predict it (i.e. can't really react to it)
- You shouldn't be trying to jump in on electricity. It'll trade or beat most jump ins.
--To beat Blanka's electricity, use Jab SPD, EX Glove, or the tip of your low HK
--To effectively counter blanka's rainbow roll (which can cross you up), just focus, absorb the hit, dash cancel, and punish w/ SPD or super/ultra.
--Block Blanka's Ultra, low, high, then mid, and either EX glove or dash SPD to punish. If you have Ultra, use low forward to buffer the Ultra while he's bouncing up. Also, if a blanka does it from far away to chip, kick lariat beats it clean.
Strategy Credit: lawpnoy1
The hardest part for me was getting in while under a constant barrage of seismic hammer fakes and cancels. What I found very useful was jumping towards her from a long range once you see her hand glow red. If she commits to the hammer, it won't hit u since ur in the air. If she cancels it and does another one, it should give u enough time to land and block most of the time. Both of these situations are in your favor because ur gradually pushing her into the corner which is where you want her. Just don't try to jump after blocking one of those hammers cause the blockstun on that thing is enough for her to catch u with another if u do. Other than that, you're main goal is to slowly work her into the corner. From there, just keep up the pressure and try to find an opening to knock her down.
Here are a few things that I found that worked very well for me during a few matches:
- Lariat beats her ex seismic hammer if she does it on wakeup if ur up close
- Lariat beats/trades her ex burning kick if she does it on wakeup if ur up close
- Lariat beats/trades her HK xx burning kick crossup shenanigans
- EX glove is great at the sweetspot distance if she does a seismic hammer
- Don't get too close to her in the corner yet unless you score a knockdown, otherwise viper will just superjump out over ur head. I found that keeping ur range at the ex glove sweet spot was good. If they try to jump out, u can meet them in the air with a headbutt. If they flinch or make a mistake, ex greenhand.
Once knocked down, try doing lariats to try and beat most of her wakeups and then when they get scared of doing wakeups, you can:
- SPD/Atomic suplex if they stay grounded
- jab/short->bnb if they try to jump
Play defensively and let her come to you. Then react as follows:
Spiral Arrow: Block and during block animation buffer SPD. Always works and beats out her cannon spark that comes right after. But ONLY if you buffer during block animation. Do it too late and you'll eat leg. Also, if she does it from a range where just the tip of her foot hits you, you will not be able to punish.
Cannon Spike: Maxrange Streight Jump Headbut beat its clean
Block then do one of the following...
- EX Hand
- Step forward and HP hand
- Down Forward+HK
Hooligan Combo: Crouching PPP (not to late or you get thrown just use it when she is in range!!)
Turn Knuckle: Crouching PPP (late)
Cammy's Ultra: Jump Upward-->Greenhand into Zangief's Grab/Ultra
- Most of the time chun won't even want to be near gief.
- In General when Chun is crossing you up, you pretty much can't do anything but block. When she does the cross over jump you'll have to just block because if you mess up in punishing it, you'll be hurting.
-Punish her Ultra with your Ultra while inside the blockstun!
-Jumping Headbut beats EX Spinning Bird Kick (not at point blanke range.. stay in max jab SPD range) so abuse it into Dizzy (Jumping Headbut/Crouching Roundhouse =800stun)
- When you knock her down, she can wake up EX Bird to stop your crossups or meaty attacks. Lure this so she want wast meter or try headbut mentioned above
- A late back jump+MK OR even a LATE SPLASH will stuff wakeup EX bird. TIMING MUST BE PERFECT.
If you start taunting repeatedly for the first part of the match, there is a good chance the dan player will start repeatedly taunting with Dan... That's when you 'Gief them!
It's hard to get in on Sim, but it's doable. There's no need to be hasty about it, and actually being hasty can get you basted. Jumping at bad times and places will get you AA'd and walking forward at bad times or places will get you St.HP'd (stretchy arms). Your goal is to push Sim into the corner.
On the ground, psychic lariats can knock Sim out of his far limbs, sometimes trading (which is fine for you because you win on damage and get a knockdown). Far Cr.LP and St.MP beat far St.HP from Dhalsim. If you block a far St.HP, you can do reversal green hand to move forward while Sim is recovering, and then you'll get hit by something because Sim recovers sooner than you do, but as long as you don't get hit by super that's worth it because it gets you and Sim closer to the corner.
In the air is where you can really move forward though. It's basically a big wheel of options where both characters have answers to the other one's options, it's just a question of which one do you expect your opponent to do. If you jump from 2/3 screen with early jumping MK, that beats all of Sim's antiair options except his neutral jumping MP. If you jump from 2/3 screen with early jumping HP or jLP, that beats neutral jumping MP and St.HK but loses to slides and low punches. If you jump from there with nothing (ie empty jump), that'll lose to all regular AA's but beat slides and low punches.
If you jump from a range where if you attack, it'll just barely hit Sim or Sim will just barely get back+HK/MP on you, you have a much stronger guessing game. From there, jumping LP can beat back+HK and jump MP but loses to slides and low punches. Jumping early HP, same thing. Jumping early MK usually loses to back+HK and jump MP but stuffs slides and low punches. Now, if you jump from that range with an empty jump, all of Sim's grounded AA's will whiff because you're just out of range, you'll block his slides, and you'll block his low punches, each of which scenario results in you getting a free SPD (this still loses to Sim's jumping MP).
Getting spd is great for damage, but also great because it moves Sim towards the corner and you get another free wakeup situation. Regardless of how you get in, once you get in, you eat him alive. Lariat beats all of his regular options except backdash and teleport, and if you have him cornered, it also beats that. It's like a very limited guessing game that's wildly in your favor: lariat, which beats everything but block and punish, and spd, which beats block and punish but not teleport or backdash.
Jumping Upward "Hands" Trade or got beaten from faar standing HK but BEATS Lariat Clean (trades on closest range)
Lariat stops all variations of Flying Headbutt and start up of Super/Ultra
Lariat also beats startup of Sumo Splash
--guess right more than a quarter of the time (seriously); this is important because if Fuerte guesses right with his walldive bs on your wakeup 3 times and you guess right into spd once, the difference in damage output/intake between Gief and Fuerte will mean that you both end up with about the same amount of damage
--wakeup level 1 focus attack beats run into slide and splash, but run into grab beats focus
--run into anything beats lariat on wakeup and when standing, so don't use lariat much
--wakeup backdashing into spd beats splash and throw unless Fuerte pilots his move so that it goes far (yes, it's controllable in the air)
--wakeup ex green hand gets out of splash and and beats slide, but run into grab beats ex green hand
--Fuerte's jumping fierce beats lariat at most angles
--beware of doing laggy moves like lariat, green hand, or even some of your normals when Fuerte has ultra, since he can ultra all of those on reaction
--beware of jumping in, since you Fuerte can punish both with ultra and run into grab
--try to slowly walk Fuerte backwards with your pokes, react to run with immediate ex green hand, depend on guessing right to get out of situations and deal damage when waking up
--if you push Fuerte into the corner, don't follow him all the way in; stand at a range where you punish his wall jump and react to runs with a normal or ex green hand
--if you have him on wakeup, do meaty crouching jab all day and then react; if it hits, do a combo; if he does ultra, jump; if he does ex antiair grab to get out, do lariat, if he does ex run, oh well, you dealt gray damage at least; also mix this up with spd occasionally
Against Guile.... This match is long and boring. I feel that Gief has the advantage though, b/c once he gets in, it's pretty much over.
If he's chucking booms from full screen, feel free to gain some Ultra meter by focusing, but pay attention for EX Booms. They're way too fast to decently react to. Just watch the EX meter. Pay attention to the MAGIC RANGE where you can jump over a boom and jab SPD.
If Guile doesn't have EX meter, nothing on the ground will sufficiently beat j.mk. Flash kick trades or gets stuffed, and c.HP is the same. Also, using C.HP is dangerous b/c of the empty jump->spd threat. Alot of Guiles will jump back mk or hk instead. That's fine, you're gaining position and working them to the corner. I'd have to test if using jump fierce trades here.
-Against any guile who spams C. HK, Ex Banishing Flat or Jab SPD (if in range). That move sucks and all scrub guiles use it.
-Guile has weak crossup defense. Flash Kick gets stuffed, EX flash kick commonly goes the wrong way, and ultra is way too slow. Take advantage of this by mixing up these options when he gets up. His best answer is usually to just hold up back, gameplan for that. -Splash->whatever -Knees-> whatever -Empty Jump low short->whatever -Empty Jump Atomic suplex
I also feel that doing early jumping knees (on the front side) maybe good, I've yet to try it.
-EX Flash Kick Will knock you clean out of lariat from a good distance away, so don't spam it. Not like you ever should.
The real reason I think Gief wins this fight is because of the damage differential. Guile's damage comes from Sonic Booms and EX Flash Kicks, while gief can take relatively huge risks all day without fear of much punishment. You gotta be patient, but the W will come in the end.
M. Bison (Dictator)
The main two fears in the Bison vs Zangief Matchup are his S.HK, and Bison runaway. I'll deal w/ stand HK First.
Stand HK is a pain in that it is fast, has long range, serves as a great anti air, stuffs lariat, and also hits mid (halting forward progress on the ground)
Use a combination of Stand MP (to whiff punish), DF+ HK (to hit out of the move but this is slow and risky), EX Glove, Jump plus up+HP (to hit his foot), and jab spd (to grab him from beyond his S.HK's range. Hard to do).
Once you do get past it, Bison has a rougher time.
You shouldn't be jumping forward much in this match anyway, but obviously refrain from doing so when bison has Ultra.
If Dictator is doing stomps on you, simply backdash to make him whiff and punish w/ jab spd. This works for both EX and regular. Punch lariat trades w/ normal stomp if done deep enough, tack on EX glove to really win the damage exchange. This is useful if you happen to be cornered.
The Devil's Reverse and stomp follow up (if he's made it to that point), can be either be focused attacked through, or beaten clean with a deep lariat (tip is to crouch first). EX Devil's reverse beats focus attacks.
If he keeps on Devil's reversing toward the corner, simply walk forward. This is a good thing.
Bison's teleport is fixed relative to you, the opponent. It can be easily countered if you gameplan for it. In the corner, he can't teleport backwards and his forward teleport doesn't take him out of your jump back range. So move forward as he's getting up, then jump back with splash to pin him again.
Outside of the corner, if he does backwards teleport, doing an EX or Fierce glove on his wakeup will cover the distance and allow you to grab him out of the teleport recovery. Obviously, both gloves are unsafe for you to do if he just blocks, but players don't like to sit and block against gief for obvious reasons.
Like many of Gief's matches, once you have a life lead, feel free to chill out for awhile. Making Dictator come to you will eliminate the damage you take from trying to get in.
Zangief probably wins this fight 6-4. Rufus needs to be close to do damage, and he doesn't want to be close to Zangief b/c of lariat/SPD. Rufus can't really abuse dive kick b/c deep lariat will at least trade with him. Rufus will get most of his damage from EX messiah kick, throws b/c you're afraid of EX messiah, AA's and cr.FP. Let's talk about them, shall we?
- Rufus Cr.HP**
Cr.LP is the best solution, either preemptively or on reaction if you are out of range. Buffer into LP glove ON HIT to close the gap quickly and grab Rufus with a jab spd. I've actually had this work against a good rufus in a tournament.
Cr.HP is -14, so if Rufus misranges, it can be punished w/ EX hand. If he only hits with his hand, you can't really get over to him, even w/ kara glove. Try just walking forward and using cr.LP's.
- EX Messiah Kick**
Always be aware of Rufus' meter and your opponents tendency to use this move. Safe players only use it w/ 3 stocks to FADC the flip kick. Some players mash it out during poke strings. Other players will throw it out after one of Rufus' many safe moves (dive kick, galactic tornado, Messiah kick sweep ender, etc). Baiting this move and punishing it is how you beat Rufus. Thankfully, Gief has PLENTY of options.
LK ender- flip kick -This ender is used to end if Messiah kick hits. -It is also used to FADC backwards if it is blocked and Rufus doesn't want to be punished. EX Messiah->LK ender-> FADC backwards is still -7 on block, so if YOU are cornered, you can punish him with a St.MP, Cr.LK, or St.LK, since it doesn't push you back. -It can be delayed to not combo. This will beat lariat and focus, but will now lose to Ultra/Super/EX SPD. This is why you shouldn't just spam lariat/focus. -It is horribly unsafe and leaves rufus close. You can spin the stick during the flip to bust out ultra when he lands, or your choice of punishment.
MK ender- sweep -loses to early lariat -loses to focus attack -loses to early grab/ultra -safe on block.
HK ender- Overhead -Loses to PPP lariat -Loses to focus attack -Is punishable by super/ultra on block (it's -1 on block, better get that REVERSAL)
As you can see. Any of these options can lead into guaranteed ultra/super for zangief. Without 3 stocks of meter, Rufus is taking a HUGE risk.
- Rufus AA's***
Are incredibly good, especially w/ meter. The up palm normal on the ground, St.HP, j.HK into snake strike or ultra, EX Messiah, and EX Snake strike are all really good options. Don't jump. You don't need to, and it's going to hurt if you do.
- Dive Kick, Dive Kick/Dive Kick, EX Messiah/ Dive Kick Throw Mixup**
Block the dive kicks low and try to crouch tech on reaction. EX Messiah cannot hit your Cr.LK if you are crouch teching. Eating throws are preferable than eating a divekick combo->ultra or being hit w/ EX messiah->FADC ultra.
Conclusion: Rufus will get his damage from AA's, punishing stupid lariats/spds, throws, and really risky offensive setups (like w/ dive kick or random messiahs).
Zangief will get damage from normal pokes (Cr.LP, St.MP) and punishing Rufus's attempts at doing damage.
--don't do random lariats, since Sagat can punish either lariat with both tiger shots and (worse) tiger knees
--focus attacking through tiger shots is also risky, he can mix them up so well and since you'll probably take damage at some point in getting in
--get through shots by jumping over low ones, crouching forward under high ones (since crouching forward moves you toward your opponent), and bulldogging up (walking toward and blocking shots on reaction)
--just within green hand range is a good place to be, since you can ex green hand tiger shots and laggy normals (like standing roundhouse) on reaction
--you can play footsies with him fairly well; crouching roundhouse can go under stuff, standing strong can beat stuff, and jabs and shorts can beat stuff too
--when footsying with jabs and shorts, don't forget to always buffer the jab/short into ex green hand
--if you knock him down, do crossup meaty down+short knees like right on his head, since he won't know which way to block or which way to input the dp, and if he does dp it'll usually whiff
-Blocked Ultra-->Wait till the last hit Dash Toward into Ultra/Grab. You can buffer the 720 into the dash pretty easily.
Additional Strategy Courtesy chosen_one23
Yeah, against Sagat, especially online, Zangief will have trouble. A lot of the things you have to do are on reaction (NOT PSYCHIC), and to be honest, a lot of this match counts on ex hand at a sweet distance.
The basic strategy at the beginning matchup is simply try to walk up to the Sagat. Assuming he will turtle, he will zone you with St.HK or FB's and eventually get on his side of the screen, okay, so now this is where I stop being obvious and tell you how to win this.
Assuming you're on the opposite side of the screen and Sagat is FB spamming, you need to do one of two options:
1.) jump over low FB's or KKK lariat (only at the very end of the screen).
2.) Cr.mk under high FB's to get closer.
Options from about 60% of the screen are these:
1.) Creep forward slowly, blocking FB's over and over.
2.) Forward Jump->Forward/Back HP at max range trades or beats Sagats St.HK. NOTE: Don't abuse this too much.
- The main pressure for Sagat here is that you're eventually going to guess right and jump in or cr. mk enough to get close to him. If you predict that he's going to do a low FB, and you jumped in before his FB, you're already about at your sweet spot range. Now, let's continue.
Take option 1 and do your best to get into your sweet spot. The sweet spot will be defined as:
Just outside of St.HK range where you can punish it with ex hand and his FB's. When you're at this range, do nothing. Let him get nervous and see if he spams St.HK. If he's doing that, then you know you're in the right position. Remember, the idea here is for a knock down.
---) If he jumps at you in attempt to knock you down, crouch lariat or Cr.MP.
---) If he tries to St.HK, ex hand.
---) If he tries to FB you, ex hand.
NOTE: You HAVE to be looking for these options when you are at your sweet spot. This is critical.
- The key, however, to all of this is to pressure sagat enough into going into the corner. Once he's in the corner, you need to lay it on him and keep him grounded. Don't jump in at him. Just watch him and wait for an opening.
- Since you're close, you can pressure with St.MP and keep moving in with it, letting him block each St.MP as you get closer. Do it fast, and pause sporadically to wait for any nervous attacks like a tiger uppercut.
- Okay, so now, let's say you got Sagat knocked down (in or out of the corner).
Some dirty tricks you can do with Sagat are:
---) Late crossup->HP splash beats regular uppercut and whiffs through ex uppercut
---) Cross up deep LK knees->tick throw
---) Cross up deep LK knees->combo (gief's bnb's might be difficult for most, so do crossup->cr. lk->lariat)
---) Or jump so LK knees hits his head (this way, he can't tiger uppercut you because of his angle), and if he blocks or if it hits him (while he's not jumping of course), spam your 720 as you land. If it hits, assuming that he's not jumping, (and it's relatively easy given Sagat's height.), by the time you land, you'll already be ready to 720, and he will be out of hit/block stun.
- Teach him not to jump after a knockdown by doing cross up->lariat combo. But I guess, most of all, you just need to observe the Sagat and see how he plays before you decide on whether he falls for tick setups or lariats more.
If you block a Tiger Uppercut->FADC the sagat can do 1 of three things:
1.) Focus Attack
2.) Dash Forward
3.) Dash Back
- EX hand beats all 3, Lariat/SPD/Super/Ultra beats 1 and 2.
FADCing isn't a "get out of jail free" card, as you cannot cancel into block. You can even use the block stun from the uppercut to buffer a 720 and bust it out during the dash forward, since most sagats dash forward instead of the safer backwards.
- don't do random lariats, since Sagat can punish the recovery on both lariats with both FB's and (worse) tiger knees; only do KKK lariats on reaction to low FB's from far away
- FADCing through FB's is also risky, he can mix them up well and you'll probably take damage at some point in getting in
- when footsying with LP and LK, don't forget to always buffer the LP/LK into ex hand
Some of you might be confused with Zangief's cr.HK. He has two version: 1) Down + HK. 2) Down forward + HK. The second one has the most range and you should be using that version to trip Sagat.
- To counter Ultra, just dash toward while buffering a 720 inside the dash
--Jumping up+fierce beats lariat from max range and at the height where your head is about at the same level as Gief's hands (ie pretty close to the ground). If he wakes up with ex green hand, you'll have recovered in time to block it.
--If you do ex green hand xx fa backdash and it's blocked, your opponent can get a free spd on you because you're still in range and don't recover as quickly as your opponent does. Ex hand is always unsafe if blocked in this matchup, even if you focus cancel out of it.
--Ex hand loses to punch lariat clean. Because of this and its unsafeness on block, ex hand should only be used on reaction to super laggy things like crouching roundhouse.
--Ex hand can beat ultra somehow, which is super weird. It loses to every other throw, from normal throws to command grabs, and yet yesterday my friend empty jumped in, I started ex green hand, he did ultra on landing, and ex green hand knocked him down.
--Standing roundhouse always beats lariat from max range
--Crossup fierce splash trades with lariat if you time the lariat correctly. I'm not sure about crossup down+short knees, I'll try it next time.
--Like every other character, when Gief goes up against Gief, he has to change his gameplan; Gief can't use his regular try-to-get-in game against Gief, it's just too risky and frankly not very effective. It's better to play a zoning game, using standing roundhouse, standing fierce, crouching roundhouse, and the like. Don't try to cross him up if you get knocked down, just do jumping up+fierce at max range on his wakeup, it's totally safe.
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