Difference between revisions of "Vice (CvS2)"

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== Blanka ==
 
== Blanka ==
 
Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 6-4
 
Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 6-4
 +
 +
-RC grab his meaty wake-up electricity (which really takes away easy-mode blanka for lots of players)
 +
 +
-shoulder blocked blanka balls, RC shoulder jumps ins (or just use low fierce or standing RH depending on range)
 +
 +
-low jump fierce when in range
 +
 +
-lots of standing strongs? i think the ground game would be tough, but the range where blanka would low RH sweep would be her low jump fierce range.
 +
-Popoblo
  
 
== Bison (Dictator) ==
 
== Bison (Dictator) ==

Revision as of 00:50, 14 April 2018

alt text

Introduction

Vice is a rush down character with a strong mixup game that loops back into itself, constantly putting the opponent on their heels. She lacks big damage, however, and struggles against characters with dominating/threatening neutral like Cammy. She is best comparable to Iori, just switch the dominant mixup option from low short to RC Nail Bomb.

With two command grab specials and two command grab supers, Vice fits right into the "Nimble Mixup Grappler" archetype such as SF3's Makato, SF4's Abel, and SFV's Laura. Play her if you like a grab/combo mixup game but don't want to be big and slow like Raiden or Zangief.

Basic Stats

  • Health at Ratio 2= 13600 (Below Average, Median Health is 14400)
  • Stun Bar= 70 (Average)
  • Stun Duration Time= +/- 0f (Average)
  • Guard Guage Recovery Rate: Normal
  • Crouching height= 61 (Very Short)
  • Dash: Length= 113 pixels, Duration= 17f, Height= 22.5 (Can corpse hop and hop ground fireballs)
  • Run Speed= 8.0 (Average)
  • Roll: 84 Distance, 27f invincible, 4f Recovery. (Above average)
  • Wakeup-Speed compared to Ryu= 0f (Average)

Preferred Grooves

Roll Canceling Vice's specials is critical to effective Vice play, so Vice should be played in C, A, or N.

C Groove-

Advantages-

  • Dash- Vice has one of the best corpse hop dashes in the game
  • Cheap Level 1s- While Vice doesn't really use meter often, when she does it is her level 1 negative gain or a counter attack (alpha counter) that can lead to mixups. Both of these options are cheapest in C-Groove.
  • Delayed Get-up- Unpunishable method to mess with setup/safejumps.
  • Air Block-

Disadvantages-

  • No Run means no free crossup after Mayhem->De-cide Slayer
  • No Low Jump means you have to earn your way in via a RC Mayhem or well placed sweep.

A Groove-

Advantages-

  • Dash- As in C
  • BIG DAMAGE Instead of leaving damage on the table when Mayhem'ing someone into the corner, Vice gets a free activate into buckoo damage (7000-10000)
  • Rolento/Dan OTG Grab customs!

Disadvantages-

  • That custom combo is freaking hard, man.
  • More focus on the big damage custom means less use of level 1s for defense.

N Groove-

Advantages-

  • Low jump- Low jump HP is dominant, and very useful get in tool.
  • Run- While not as good at mixing up as her dash, still great to loop crossup mixups and run after RC Nailbomb
  • Counter Roll- The BEST defense against A groove, period.
  • Power Up- Without great supers, sometimes a powerup can be useful.

Disadvantages-

  • None

Preferred Team Position & Ratio

Due to her lack of super usage and rush down style, Vice is often the lead off batter and a ratio 1. A case could be made for the middle position if you use her in A-Groove, but most A-Groove teams will have a character who can custom midscreen for just as much damage.

New school thought is that matchups always outweigh battery/user/anchor theory, so if you want to move Vice away from a short/skinny problem character like Cammy to a better MU like Todo or something, by all means.

Move List

Normal Moves

Name State Spc Sup Hit Blk Sta Act Rec Dmg H/L? Parry Notes
Jab Close y y +8 +8 2 4 5 300 Mid H/L
Far y y +7 +7 3 4 6 200 Mid H/L Whiffs every croucher but Gief, Sagat, Chang, Geese, Raiden
Crouch y y +7 +7 3 4 6 200 Mid H/L
Jump - - - - 4 22 - 500 High H
Strong Close y y 0 0 5 10 12 700 Mid H
Far n n -1 -1 6 5 17 1200 Mid High Whiffs crouching Vega, Cammy, Morrigan, Yun, Chun Li, Sakura, Mai, Kim, Vice, Yuri, Nakoruru, Rock, Hibiki, Maki, Iori, Athena
Crouch N Y -9 -9 5 3 26 700
Jump - - - - 4 10 - 700
Fierce Close y y +6 +6 4 6 14 1000
Far N N -10 -10 17 11 25 1200
Crouch y/n y -7 -7 4 10 21 1100/700
Jump - - - - 5 6 - 1100
Short Neutral y y -2 -2 3 6,(5),6 13 300+200
Crouch y y +2 +2 4 6 8 200
Jump - - - - 4 22 - 400
Forward Close Y Y -2 -2 3 7 17 800
Far n y -2 -2 7 9 16 700
Crouch n y -3 -3 5 8 17 800
Jump - - - - 5 5 - 800
Roundhouse Close n ynn +2 +2 7 6(2)4 18 400+800
Far n y -6 -6 6 6 24 1100
Crouch n y DWN -10 6 5 29 1000
Jump - - - - 6 8 - 1100

Special Moves

Nail Bomb

- HCF+P aka 4123(6)+P


Strength Hit Range Sta Rec Dmg
Jab DWN 52 3 22 1800
Strong DWN 50 3 22 1900
Fierce DWN 48 3 22 2000


Vice's go to command grab and mixup threat. You must be able to roll cancel this consistently to properly play Vice. A small quirk about the motion allows you to omit the forward directional input entirely, so the motion is actually 4123+P. This is key when it comes to roll canceling the move, as you need to roll slightly earlier than you would for a proper HCF or QCF motion. This also eliminates the possibility of getting an accidental De-Cide (Arm Whip) as that move requires the full Half Circle motion.

As far as use in combat, it's a grab. It doesn't have any more range than her traditional throw (her MP and HP versions have less actually) so its used in the same situations. You can only really tick with one jab or short and still be in range.

Roll canceling the move gives the move fantastic utility, making reversals whiff and allowing it to out prioritize jabs. The quick recovery usually allows for punish opportunities if the enemy gets away.

Because there is 6 frames of universal throw invulnerability in reversal situations (blockstun, hitstun, wakeup), the additional 3~4 frames in startup from roll cancelling helps this command grab. With that, simply doing the throw on someone's wakeup without a tick is common and very effective.

After the grab, N Groove Vice has just enough time to run up to them to be in range for another RC Nail Bomb/Low Short situation. C/A Groove only get one dash. (MP Shoulder works too).

Gore Fest

- HCB,F+P aka 632146+P, DP+P for Followup


Strength Hit Range Sta Rec Dmg
Jab DWN 52 6 24 1000+(1000)
Strong DWN 50 6 24 1100+(1000)
Fierce DWN 48 6 24 1200+(1000)

Vice's 2nd command grab. She drags her opponent to the corner and tosses them in the air. The follow up here is optional, but she chases them into the air and slams them back down. You keep the corner advantage, but get less okizeme options as a result.

The range is the same as Nailbomb but there is a little more damage and the startup is a fair amount longer. However, there is one major downside to this move:

YOU CANNOT ROLL CANCEL THIS MOVE, IT IS FUNCTIONALLY IMPOSSIBLE. At any point during the motion, one or more mistake moves will come out instead.

So there are only two real uses for this move: 1) Corner Carry 2) A Groove setup. You can activate instead of the followup and custom.

Mayhem

- QCB+P aka 214+P


Strength Hit Block Sta Act Rec Dmg
Jab DWN -9 9 19 26 800
Strong DWN -9 7 22 28 900
Fierce DWN -9 6 26 29 1000

Vice's advancing shoulder rush. Can be followed up with De-Cide Slayer (DP+K) on hit. Her go to move in combos.

One of the best RC pokes in the game, on par with RC Blanka Ball and RC Psycho Crusher, without the charge requirement or ability to be airblocked. Fierce is the most useful, as it travels the fastest and furthest and also starts up the fastest, allowing for the most invincible hitting frames when roll canceled.

At -9, this move can be spaced so that it's fairly safe, but that usually requires using the Jab or Strong versions of the move.

Use this move to blow through obvious pokes, charge through fireballs, anti air, chase tech rolls (MP or HP), and obviously finish your combos.

Following up with De-Cide Slayer adds 800 damage and will side switch, after which Vice can run and superjump for a crossup or do another shoulder charge to close the gap.

The De-Cide Slayer follow up does not work in the corner, however. Not doing the followup will give you more time to setup wakeup games or a safe jump.

De-Cide

- HCF+K aka 41236+K


De-Cide Slayer

- DP+K aka 623+K


Outrage

- QCB+K aka 214+K (air ok)

Supers

Negative Gain

hcb, hcb + K

Level Hit Range StaB StaA Rec Dmg Notes
1 DWN 76 5 1 52 2600 Frames 1-9 invincible
2 DWN 76 5 1 52 3800 Frames 1-15 invincible
3 DWN 76 5 1 52 5500 Frames 1-23 invincible

A decent tool to Vice's mix-up game. It has much more range than RC Nail bomb or throw, it will connect after a blocked close MP/MK or her 2 hit Stand Short. However, she has no mixup potential afterwards, so has to earn her way back in.

A better use is as a reversal, as it is fully invincible until she grabs and cannot be jumped after the flash. This also makes it a good counter to roll-cancels on your wakeup. Bonus is that if she whiffs, she does a quick backflip, leaving her relatively safe unless she's cornered..

Withering Force

qcf, qcf + P


Level Hit Range StaB StaA Rec Dmg Notes
1 DWN 52 5 27 20 2900 Frames 1-9 invincible
2 DWN 52 5 27 20 4300 Frames 1-16 invincible
3 DWN 52 5 27 20 5800 Frames 1-23 invincible

Its only practical use is as a lvl3 super versus long range fireballs, which is never going to happen. The level 3 version does do the most damage of anything she can do, so it could be used against a dizzy opponent.

The Basics

Bread and Butter Combos

  • 1. c.lk x3 xx qcb+hp xx dp+hk.

This is going to be the combo you get most often, good damage off of low hitting shorts. C. Jab can be subbed at any time, it seems to have marginally more range.

  • 2. c.lk, c.lp, c.fp xx qcb+hp xx dp+hk.

Can only be done on fatter characters, point blank (like Sagat, Blanka, Guile, Todo). Does really great damage and stun.

  • 3. Deep Short Jump J.FP xx QCB+HP xx DP+ HK

Special moves cancel the landing recovery of short jumps, allowing this to combo. Be careful, the Jump FP has to pretty deep, and it's hitbox is so good it can hit high pretty often.

  • 4. Instant overhead Jump LK xx Ravenous

(only works on super tall characters like Sagat, Raiden, Chang, and Rugal.)

  • 5. C.LK, C.LP, C.LP, C.HK

Very hard link (1f), but very useful combo as Vice gets a lot of good setups off of sweep.

  • 6. C.LP, Cl.HP xx LK De-Cide

Alternate combo route ideal for setting up frame traps.

Custom Combos

Advanced Strategy

  • 1) Roll Cancel Nail Bomb (412 LP+LK~3+FP) or C.LKx3 XX Mayhem.

This can be done on their wakeup or after 1 C.Jab/J.LK (remove one from the confirm)

This will grab blockers and RC moves, and many invincible moves will whiff.

In order to counter this, your opponent has to jump or throw.

Luckily, both of these options lose to meaty low short. There's your mixup.

If you go for RC Nail bomb, you can still punish your opponents jump via C.HP, Close HK in the corner, or RC HP Mayhem Mid Screen.

  • 2) Negative Gain Ticks: Run close to fallen opponent, tick with (c.lk,c.lk) / (c.lk,c.lp) / s.mk / s.mp / c.mk / c.mp, and do Negative Gain (HCBx2 + K). If the opponent starts jumping after your ticks, try doing c.lk,c.lp,*small_pause*,c.hp, hcf+lk. It's safer to leave out the first c.lk, because c.hp might whiff if you don't get close enough to your opponent.
  • 3) 2P Cross-up Glitch

If you land Vice's De-Cide and De-Cide Slayer on an opponent and they end up in the corner, Vice will be able to cross them up with a jump, short jump, or dash.

Matchups

Sagat

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 4-6

"against sagat do lots and lots of standing strongs. it will beat out most of sagat’s problem pokes. low jump fierce works well too (timed a bit early to take advantage of sagat’s height), and is practically a guaranteed way into mix up range." -Buktooth

Blanka

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 6-4

-RC grab his meaty wake-up electricity (which really takes away easy-mode blanka for lots of players)

-shoulder blocked blanka balls, RC shoulder jumps ins (or just use low fierce or standing RH depending on range)

-low jump fierce when in range

-lots of standing strongs? i think the ground game would be tough, but the range where blanka would low RH sweep would be her low jump fierce range. -Popoblo

Bison (Dictator)

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 6-4

"lots of standing strongs

punish a blocked PC hard with shoulder to whip to mixup oki

punish the devil’s reverse with RC shoulder (and headstomp after you block the initial hit IF they don’t fly away with the glitch)

low fierce/standing RH/RC shoulder his jump-ins"

Popoblo

Cammy

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating:3-7

Sakura

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 5-5

Vega (Claw)

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 6-4


"vega is pretty tough. sleeves keep him either crouching or jumping; not walking back and forth. rc shoulder his jumps, walk/run at him if he crouches. low jump fierce is also good against vega if you can get into range."- Buktooth


Guile

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 5-5

Chun-Li

Buktooth's N-Vice Rating: 3-7

Honda

"against honda all the standard anti-honda stuff applies. vice can punish headbutts with counter roll into whatever, and can also super grab his assorted rc moves in a lot of situations." -Buktooth

Discussion