Difference between revisions of "Zangief (ST)"
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Revision as of 02:02, 18 January 2011
- 1 Introduction
- 2 Color Options
- 3 Move Analysis
- 4 The Basics
- 5 Advanced Strategy
- 6 Combos
- 7 Match-ups
- 7.1 Vs. Balrog (boxer):
- 7.2 Vs. Blanka:
- 7.3 Vs. Cammy:
- 7.4 Vs. Chun-Li:
- 7.5 Vs. Dee Jay:
- 7.6 Vs. Dhalsim:
- 7.7 Vs. E. Honda:
- 7.8 Vs. Fei Long:
- 7.9 Vs. Guile:
- 7.10 Vs. Ken:
- 7.11 Vs. M. Bison (dictator):
- 7.12 Vs. Ryu:
- 7.13 Vs. Sagat:
- 7.14 Vs. T. Hawk:
- 7.15 Vs. Vega (claw):
- 7.16 Vs. Zangief:
- 7.17 Vs. O. Sagat:
- 7.18 Vs. O. T. Hawk:
New Zangief Colors
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.
--Raisin (April 30, 2007)
Old Zangief Colors
Old Zangief's input code is LRRR. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.
--Raisin (April 30, 2007)
As the prototypical grappler, Gief has the most normal throws in the game and even a couple of the best in his strong and roundhouse throws. That said, because of his excellent command grabs, his normal throws go mostly unused.
Toward/back + strong: Zangief sits on the opponent's head, opponent always stays in front of Zangief. Sets up a crossup fierce splash when unteched. Zangief's most commonly-used normal throw.
Toward/back + fierce: Gief does, I don't know, something to the opponent's face for multiple hits. Crappy range.
Toward/back + forward: Zangief throws the opponent over his head, opponent always ends up behind him. Not as useful as strong because the opponent is thrown too far for a splash, but if Gief is in the corner and you want the opponent cornered, here ya go.
Toward/back + roundhouse: Gief bites the opponent for multiple hits. For a normal throw, this has great range and does great damage, and it would be awesome for any other character, but again, if you're going to grab, the command grabs are the ways to go.
Down + strong: Crouching version of the fierce throw. This sometimes comes out when you want a crouching strong poke, and that's fine because the throw does more damage, but it's never used on purpose.
Down + fierce: Same deal, except you very rarely press crouching fierce, so you'll probably never see it in-game.
(Gief and opponent in air) Toward/back + roundhouse/forward: Zangief tosses over his head in the direction pressed. Ok range, but very rarely used.
(Gief and opponent in air) Toward/back + strong/fierce: Gief throws the opponent down in the direction pressed. This is the better airthrow because it leaves the opponent closer, but it's still very rarely used.
Toward/back + strong/fierce: Gief does a stupid little hop. The move has like no range, beats just about nothing out, and is almost never used on purpose. It was probably meant as a way for Zangief to be able to hop over opponents' low normals, but it's not very good at doing that. Mostly it's just an annoyance.
Jump straight up strong/fierce: Gief does a sort of headbutt thing. In the Japanese version it's often an instant dizzy, but in the American version it got nerfed, so it's not very useful.
Spinning pile driver (360 + punch): A command throw with great range that does great damage; this is Zangief's most important move. The jab version has the best range but does the worst damage and fierce has the worst range but does the best damage, although the range and damage don't vary all that much. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack, like a dragon punch.
Atomic suplex (close 360 + kick): This command throw is more damaging than spd, but its range is much smaller. If you're right up close, go for this for more guaranteed damage. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack.
Running bear grab (far 360 + kick): Gief runs a little distance, and as soon as he gets close enough he grabs the opponent. This does less damage than spd and spd's range is only a little smaller than this move's max running range, but it's still useful in some matchups and in surprise situations. The startup time means the opponent can jump or even hit Gief out of it with a normal.
Punch lariat (Jab + Strong + Fierce): Gief spins around with hands a-flailing, going through fireballs, high tiger shots, some supers, and most high- and mid- level normals. The active hitbox extends to all of the area around Gief's head but only to one of Gief's hands, so although the hand with the hitbox beats just about every non-invincible move in its range, the chance of that happening is a little less than 50%; as a result, while the lariat can beat things like Honda's headbutt, it does so only occasionally. This has no lower-body invincibility.
Kick lariat (short + forward + roundhouse): Like the punch lariat, but this one has a shorter duration and doesn't move laterally as far. It also hits "lower"; for example, while punch lariat beats Boxer's far standing fierce better, kick lariat beats Claw's crouching strong better. This goes through Sagat's low tiger shots, and while it loses to moves you need to block low, it does go through a weird assortment of "lower" level normals.
Green hand aka banishing fist (toward, down-toward, down + punch): The fist beats out fireballs, but only while it's glowing. It's used to move through fireballs, but it's generally not as good at that as the lariat because of its startup and recovery. The hitbox at the fist is really robust, so it beats out just about everything if timed right. The move is mainly used as a quick way to get Gief into better range after a command grab.
720 (two joystick rotations plus any punch button): The range on this thing is more like that of the atomic suplex than spd, but it can take off up to about 60% of the opponent's life. It's used pretty rarely because you need to be so close to land it, but if you get a chance, go for it. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack.
Zangief's game revolves around landing his command grabs. He wants to be up close to the opponent ticking into spd or getting a running bear grab. Gief uses his lariats and green hand to get into footsie range, where he uses his excellent crouching roundhouse, standing short, and standing forward pokes as well as lariats to get a knockdown or set up a spinning pile driver.
Ticking is the action of following a blocked move with a throw so that the opponent is forced to take damage even though they successfully blocked your attack. Since Zangief relies heavily on ticks into his SPD, ticking is an important part of learning how to use Zangief. While Zangief can tick from almost all his moves, the following are his most common ticks and a good Zangief player should be able to do them all. The sections and the ticks in each section are roughly in order from easiest to most difficult.
Ticks from the Air
- Jumping Short/Forward/Roundhouse -> SPD
- Down+Jumping Short/Forward (Knee Press) -> SPD
- Jumping Down+Fierce (Chest Press) -> SPD
- Jumping Fierce -> SPD
- Standing short -> SPD
- Standing jab -> SPD
- Crouching forward -> SPD
- Crouching short -> SPD
- Crouching jab -> SPD
Effective ticking is all about learning the timing of these common ticks. If you do the tick too quickly, you will get the wiff animation for the SPD and you will be left wide open to attack. If you do the tick too slowly, your opponent will be able to either jump out of the tick or attack you. In contrast, the only way to counter a perfectly timed tick throw is to use a reversal. Learning the timing for these ticks is crucial since they are the core basics to Zangief's tick mix-up. If you have these down, then you should be able to learn his tick mix-up much more quickly.
Other notable crouching ticks: meaty c.fierce -> SPD, c.strong/meaty c.strong -> SPD These ticks setup really good frame advantage situations and can mess up your opponents reversal timing. This really holds true for the meaty c.fierce tick since your opponent is left in block/hit stun for so long. Depending on the character Gief is fighting against the risk/reward is pretty high: If the meaty fierce hits, you get damage from the fierce and SPD. If you mistime the meaty, gief can be left in a very large disadvantage situation where he's left open to attacks (sweeps, some specials, supers).
--Caliagent 17:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
As the main ST article in this wiki explains, a "safe jump" is when you time your jump late enough to land before you get hit by wakeup reversals but early enough to hit. This is possible because all special moves (minus Blanka's vertical/horizontal balls and Ken's Fierce DP, which all have 0 startup frames) have a few frames without a red (hitting) hitbox, so to do a safe jump you just need to land in that moment. If he reverses, you will just block and then will be able punish afterwards, if he fails at doing the reversal or just decides to block, then you can tick freely. Make no mistake, just jumping earlier to land before the reversal isn't a safe jump, you must jump late enough to be able to hit him as well. If he notices that your doing this way he can just throw you on his wakeup.
While its true that you can basically do this with any character, Gief and Hawk players should give this more importance, since this gives a lot more opportunities to tick throw.
There's a few things you must know before starting to practice this:
- Jump with a move that lasts the most time possible, for Zangief the best option is the Short Knee (Command Normal). - You should always land blocking! - Theres two kinds of knockdowns, the sweep ones and the full ones. You can safe jump on both, if you got enough momentum. - If you knocked someone in the side of screen, the jump times will be shorter, you will have to train this as well. - You must know that the wakeup times aren't the same for all characters (example: Vega (Spanish Ninja) recovers faster than Ryu).
Now a Sample on how you should practice this: Start a 2P game and put Ryu as a dummy, after a sweep, look at his fall animation, when he is going to touch the floor, jump with the Short knees. If you land without hitting him then you jumped too early. If you hit his head, then you jumped late. If you hit him near his knees then you did it right. That's basically it, now you must train this a lot to make your precision higher. It's not easy though.
With this in mind, you can begin your training, i recommend starting with Ryu since is the most used character. With this stuff learned you will be able to train the same against the other characters as well (with Guile and Vega being priorities). If you find it too hard for a start, you can try against Balrog (Boxer) first, since his fastest reversal has 11 frames of startup (which is pretty high) compared with Ryu's DP (4 frames), but the concept is the same, basically you just need memorize in what moment of their fall/bounce animation that you must jump.
Zangief only has a few cancelable moves, but his normals are remarkably linkable, so he still has some big combos. I'm going to put down all of his links (--) and cancels (xx) that combo and then I'll note a couple of his most-used combos. For moves that link into multiple things, I'll put the standing moves they link into first, the crouching moves second, and the special moves third.
- Close standing jab -- standing jab
- Far standing jab -- standing jab
- Standing strong -- standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward
- Standing strong -- crouching fierce/crouching short/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse
- Standing strong -- green hand
- Far standing short -- standing jab/standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward
- Far standing short -- crouching jab/crouching strong/crouching fierce/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse
- Far standing short -- green hand
- Close standing forward -- standing jab/crouching jab
- Crouching jab -- standing jab/standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward
- Crouching jab -- crouching jab/crouching strong/crouching fierce/crouching short/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse
- Close standing jab xx green hand/lariat
- Far standing jab xx green hand
- Crouching jab xx green hand/lariat
- Crouching short xx green hand/lariat
- Crouching forward xx green hand/lariat
Most Used Combos
- (Crossup fierce splash), crouching jab -- crouching jab -- crouching jab -- crouching roundhouse
- (Crossup fierce splash), crouching jab -- crouching jab -- far standing short -- crouching roundhouse
- (Crossup fierce splash), standing strong -- far standing short -- crouching roundhouse
- (Crossup fierce splash), standing strong -- crouching forward xx green hand
- (Crossup fierce splash), crouching forward xx lariat
- (Jumping fierce), standing strong -- crouching roundhouse
Vs. Balrog (boxer):
Vs. Dee Jay:
You will have 2 parts to this match.
DJ has you zoned outside of his slide range. He will continually throw maxouts and then aa you if you jump or sweep you when you try to advance with lariat. And he can even st.RH you while the lariat is recovering and as an antiair from max range. This can be very difficult to get through. What I will do is position my self just out side of his max slide range and kkk lariat his maxout. If you guess right you can then begin to smother him with j.shorts and splashes and don’t forget the d.lk in the air. It will stuff or trade with the slide. Once you get in get the sweep in or a MP throw. This will allow you to advance on him when he is down. And that leads to part 2. If you don’t get the sweep/throw you will be reset and back in part one all over again.
When you get your knock down force DJ into the corner. DJ is then at a disadvantage you can cr.jab him on wake up and it will strop his rising dredkicks and normal dredkicks clean and set you up for a SPD. All Dj can do at this point is attempt a reversal throw or super if he as meter. But being that DJ builds meter rather slow I doubt he will have it at this time in the match. So now you are in a guessing game with DJ and Gief has the upper hand. If you predict right DJ will be dead in 2-3 rotations of this.
If gief does not get DJ cornered with a knockdown he is at a great disadvantage. I would say its 70/30 DJ. When Gief has DJ down in the corner it flips 70/30 Gief.
You want to get in, but don't feel like you need to constantly be walking or jumping toward Sim, guessing when to jump and which jumping attack to use and so forth. The number one mistake in playing against Sim with a character Sim can zone out well is thinking that you need to run at him; Sim will eat you up if you do that.
Instead, try to make Sim scared about throwing out limbs all the time by counterpoking, especially in ways that knock him down. If you think he's going to do any far crouching attack, you can beat it out and knock him down with crouching roundhouse or just hit him and maybe cancel into running bear grab if close enough with crouching forward/short or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing roundhouse, do your standing roundhouse, punch lariat, crouching fierce, crouching strong, or crouching jab. If you think he's gonna do far standing fierce, do kick lariat, crouching roundhouse, crouching jab, or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing forward, do crouching jab, crouching strong, standing roundhouse, or punch lariat. You have attacks to beat each of Sim's attacks at particular ranges and timings, so figure that out, it's all very location- and situation-specific.
You also have air attacks that beat or trade with most of Sim's antiairs and Sim has antiairs that beat or trade with your air attacks, it all just depends on the spacing. You can use any of jumping down+short, jumping short, jumping down+forward, jumping forward, jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce, and jumping fierce splash against any of Sim's standing short, standing forward, standing roundhouse, back+short, back+forward, back+jab, down-back+jab, or jump back fierce. This is less effective than grounded counterpoking because you can't get a knockdown, it doesn't help you in positioning if you just trade attacks, and some of Sim's antiairs beat all of your crap in some situations, so don't depend on this quite as much.
You win in damage with both grounded counterpokes and jumping attacks almost regardless of what's trading, even sometimes in the case of your crouching jab v Sim's far standing fierce if random damage is on your side, so don't be scared about that, just realize that it's hard to keep your damage lead and you're not likely to win unless you get in. The name of the game in this matchup is still you trying to get in.
Also be aware that one knock down from a distance is not enough for you to get all the way in on Sim, so don't depend on trying to walk up with a tick into spd after one knockdown. The Sim player will probably just jump away or antiair your jumping tick with down+back jab or back+jab or super or something. You can choose between walking up farther, blocking, walking up with another crouching roundhouse, doing a couple green hands to get closer, or if Sim is expecting an attack or something, doing running bear grab or walk-up spd. There's a guessing game here, so try to use it to your advantage.
Random other stuff:
When you have Sim cornered and want to tick him to death, just tick him with max range standing jab. This is safer because it can't be reversal thrown by Sim (since you're out of his range), he can't slide under it like he can some of your jumping ticks, and if Sim does reversal teleport you're in a position onscreen that'll let you deal better with any of Sim's teleport locations and you have more time to react than you would if you were landing from a jumping attack.
Also, whenever you attack Sim on his wakeup, whether for a knockdown or a tick, always be sure that you do it as a real meaty. Sim doesn't have a reversal super, so he has no good reversal against meaty attacks other than teleport, but if you do your attack even a frame after he wakes up he can start up his fully invincible super to do 50% if you're on the ground or 30% if it juggles you in the air. This is something you have to worry about when trying to jump at Sim in any non-meaty situation, although because of its motion and startup it's not useful for the Sim player unless he's specifically looking to use it.
Vs. E. Honda:
Vs. Fei Long:
I am going to tell your right now, Fei gives Gief HELL. Especially NEW Fei. Your only hope is to knock him down and play wake up mind games and go for crossups whenever possible. Lariats are almost useless at midrange because Fei's chicken wing kick can counter it clean most of the time and sometimes combo into rekka punches off of it.
So you're going to have to play this one extra smart and choose your targets perfectly. Fei can't rush at you with rekka punches like he does against other fighters because your lariat can counter it clean. Once fei is on the floor he's in your world for just a few seconds but you have to fuck with their heads by mixing up your tick throws, waiting for Fei to counter with whiffed flame kicks and punish him when he misses. But thats the thing, if you face a Fei with good reversal skills it's going to make it harder for you to land a tick SPD.
If you must jump at Fei do so by using Giefs knee short or his body splash because this makes his jumps smaller and gives fei much less time to counter with a flame kick.
Vs. M. Bison (dictator):
Vs. T. Hawk:
Vs. Vega (claw):
Vs. O. Sagat:
Vs. O. T. Hawk:
Serious Advantage Match-ups
Dictator, Ken, Hawk
Serious Disadvantage Match-ups
Claw, Blanka, Chun, Cammy, Fei Long, Guile, Honda, Sim, O Sagat
|General||Notation | Game Mechanics | Tiers | Strategy|
|The Characters||Akuma | Balrog (Boxer) (O. Balrog) | Blanka (O. Blanka) | Cammy (O. Cammy) | Chun-Li (O. Chun-Li) | Dee Jay (O. Dee Jay) | Dhalsim (O. Dhalsim) | E. Honda (O. E. Honda) | Fei Long (O. Fei Long) | Guile (O. Guile) | Ken (O. Ken) | M. Bison (Dictator) (O. M. Bison) | Ryu (O. Ryu) | Sagat (O. Sagat) | T. Hawk (O. T. Hawk) | Vega (Claw) (O. Vega) | Zangief (O. Zangief)|